June 2024. It’s a date that means the world to me because it marked my first set visit ever, and (given that 2024 is at an end) one of the few highlights from a tough year; a visit to the set of James Gunn’s Superman.

However, to me it’s more than that. This year, we saw villains rise higher in the real world than we ever have before. So frankly, what the world needs more than anything — what I need more than anything, especially now — is a hero and hope. Even if it’s in the form of a fictional symbol of truth and justice.

Let’s imagine for an instant what the world would be like if Superman was real. What would he say about America? What would he say about racism, sexism, entitlement, economic inequality, selfishness, apathy, greed, and homophobia? What would he say about toxic masculinity infiltrating every level of the US government and multi-billion dollar social media empires that influence the world? What would he say about politicians lying about lowering grocery prices then immediately flipping their stance prior to inauguration? Or about greater hypocrisy overall?

If you’ve ever read Action Comics #1, and other early Superman stories, you’d know that Superman actually started as a crusader for social justice and the betterment of society. So to be honest, I don’t think he’d look too kindly on where the world, and this country, is right now.

I believe Gunn and DC Studios partner, Peter Safran, would likely agree. In fact, they previously described their take on Superman as “kindness in a world that thinks that kindness is old-fashioned.” And in a world where everyone feels entitled to say terrible things on comment sections and message boards about how diversity, inclusion, and kindness are “for the weak” or “ruining this country” (while ironically showcasing their own weaknesses as frail, fragile hypocrites easily threatened over nothing), it’s incredibly likely the questions above were among the ones they thought about when forming their new take on the Last Son of Krypton. How could it not, given the real world today already views kindness and tolerance as old fashioned? Thankfully, since Gunn himself, a hardcore comic book nerd, has described the tone of the film as “hopeful,” it’s possible that kindness can be making a comeback through his upcoming film.

We were incredibly lucky to be given the opportunity during this past summer’s set visit to sit with the director/writer and Co-CEO of DC Studios, along with a select number of other media professionals and journalists, to discuss his upcoming take on The Man of Steel, and we are incredibly pleased to finally share that conversation with you all today.

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Question: How did you set the tone for this? It’s a brand new Superman. It’s a brand new universe. Right out of the gate.

Gunn: I mean, it’s, you know, it was about really putting us in the middle of the action from the beginning. And there’s a lot of these things in this movie. Now that I’ve been making it for over a year, you know that I think of it as normal. But now, when you bring it up, I go, “yeah, that’s, that’s pretty unusual.” We just start in the middle of the action. Superman’s already existing. You know, Lois and Clark already know each other. Lex hates Superman’s guts from the beginning, although they don’t know each other personally. So we start right in the middle of the action, and it takes place over a short amount of time.

I know what [the movie] feels like to me [internally]. I know the texture. I know that it’s something different than what I’ve done before. But how can I then translate that to you guys on the outside? Because I start with a place that’s very hopeful, fun, but incredibly grounded, incredibly serious. You know, all at the same time, it’s humorous, but it certainly is not as comedic as much as, you know, either The Suicide Squad or Guardians. There’s plenty of people that are funny [in it]. Like Rachel [Brosnahan] — so funny. You know, David [Corenswet]’s very [funny]. So there’s humor in it. But it’s trying to create something that’s grounded, but also in an incredibly fanciful world. This is a fantasy that is taking from other things — you know, things like Game of Thrones — where it’s this universe where superheroes actually exist. What are they (superheroes) like? You know, there’s a magic there that’s undeniable.

Can you talk about that action? How are you putting your stamp on Superman?

I mean, I think it really was a bunch of things. I mean, I wrote up this big document on action and what our philosophy is about, what it is, and keeping it alive in the air as well as on the ground… And being able to shoot stuff in the sky, stuff like that, is hard. So, you know, we took a lot from films like [Top Gun:] Maverick, which, you know, we are shooting flying things. We shoot a lot of our action with actual drones flying in and around Superman… And we did that on a soundstage. We got these really small, crazy drones. Now they’re incredibly easy to get some of the best flyers in the world. Here, we use those guys a lot. Everything’s planned out with me as it always is. But at the same time, I’ve gotten even more into finding new stuff on set in the moment, and exploring that stuff, finding magic where it is.

When I think about Superman I think of John Williams’ theme. Can you talk about the music/songs in the film?

I mean, listen, there’s nods to [John Williams’ score] but also, John Murphy’s created this incredible score. But the one thing is, it’s not about the songs. There’s a few songs in it. Of course, I’ve chosen songs before. But it’s a much, much longer score [than other films I’ve done].

How do you balance being the DC Studios CEO, directing this film, and doing Peacemaker and Creature Commandos at the same time?

Just giving up everything in my life and soul. Frankly, really, I’m miserable. But it’s, hopefully it’s pretty great and worth it.

Can you discuss the “trunks” vs. “no trunks” debate?

You know, at the end of the day, it wasn’t that heated. It was, like, it was heated for a while. I was on the “no trunks” team for a long time. For a long time. And, you know, Zack [Snyder] said that, when he was doing it, he tried a billion different “trunk” versions, as we did. And I kept going back to “no trunks, no trunks.” And I’m like, well, [I decided] let’s just grind it out. Let’s just keep trying trunks, you know, and see what happens. And David said something to me that really affected me, because we were trying on all these different versions. And one of the things David said is that, you know, Superman wants kids to not be afraid. You know, he’s an alien. He’s got these incredible powers. He shoots beams out of his eyes, and can blow up a truck. You know, he’s this incredibly powerful, could be considered a scary, individual. And he wants people to like him. Wants to be a symbol of positivity. So he dresses like a professional wrestler. He dresses in a way that makes people unafraid of him that shows that shows that positivity. And that really clicked in for me. And, you know, I think trying to pretend that Superman’s costume doesn’t have some frivolity to it at its base… is silly. Because he is a superhero. He’s the first one. Brightly colored, you know. And that’s who he is. And so that’s where we landed. And eventually we all came to a place where almost all of us, you know, agreed on the trunks.

How dependent would you say some of the DC Universe plans are, for instance what’s down the line, on the success of Superman alone?

A lot. I mean, you know, we’re not going to just keep making movies you know… I mean, we have only one proven success: Peacemaker. Because it was a really big show. And so we’re coming back with Peacemaker, and it’s so incredibly different from this movie. But it’s within the same universe. And that’s what we kind of want to do. And then what they’re doing with Lanterns, is so different than what we’re doing on both of those shows.

How did you decide which heroes to introduce in this movie?

It was just about who I wanted to really introduce honestly. I think it was like, I love Mr. Terrific. And you know, Mr. Terrific is… these characters all get their moment in the sun. They all have their moments. It’s not… they’re not just cameos… They’re supporting cast. But Mr. Terrific is the main character among those characters. He actually has a big part of the plot. And so that was fun. And of course, getting to work with Nathan [Fillion as Guy Gardner] and getting to put him into something stupid-looking is always great. I’ve been a fan of theirs for a long time. So, yeah, it’s great, but it just was what the balance was like.

Did the DC Animated Universe (aka the Timm-verse) influence or inspire any of your take on how this universe is going to play out?

I think that all previous DC media influenced me, you know? I mean, I think that obviously, you know, the original Donner movie influenced me. But there’s also a lot of things that, you know… aren’t like a Donner type movie. That are very different… Zack did some excellent stuff. So there’s a lot of ways that influenced me. There’s a lot of ways in which the DC Animated Universe influenced me. And then there’s a lot of stuff from the comic books above everything else. Being able to take that sort of Silver Age feel — that sort of, you know, science fiction approach — to it with the gadgets. Lex (for example) is really, sort of a sorcerer, in a way. He is a scientist, but he’s so good at science, that I think of him as like a sorcerer. So, you know, everything. And then there are just somethings that are completely “us.” You know, the relationship between David and Rachel on-screen is something I don’t think we’ve seen… It is this complicated relationship. And we really get into it, and we have scenes that are about their relationship, that in the way they play it [are unique]… what it would be like for a person who’s this incredibly intelligent, strong headed, stubborn, skeptical journalist to have a relationship with someone who can lift a skyscraper.

How much of this movie is dedicated towards setting up the characters for future films?

Zero. Zero. I mean, okay, maybe one little thing, two little things, you guys will see in two moments. But basically, if something’s there, just to set up something else… okay, you know, I even say that, you know, for all I know, those things getting cut by the time we get to the editing room… but something has to exist for this movie. And if that works in tandem with setting up characters that exist in other media, then that’s great. You know, if this sets up stuff in Peacemaker, which it does, then that’s great. But that is never, ever, ever with me going to be something that I’m going to sacrifice even a moment or a beat in a story for, especially in a movie. With TV, you got a little bit more leniency to be able to do that, but in a movie, every beat has to be in and of us, you know, in there for the movie itself.

Everything, needs to stand by itself. I don’t want somebody to have to go see this movie and be relying on anything else. Now, listen, once we get down the line, that may change a little bit. You know for Guardians… what did you have to see for Guardians Vol. 3 to really understand it? You’d be better off seeing the first two Guardians, sure. But even you know, I explained Infinity War in an elevator, You know, the whole part… Trying to keep things as simple as possible, so you don’t have to have homework. Especially TV shows that some people aren’t into, you know.

It’s really about this [movie only]. Now, are seeds being planted? Yes, there’s seeds being planted, but that is never going to be the predominant thing in any scene, for me. It’s always about getting to the next scene. What’s in the moment? How are we making this move the best we can be? And it’s it’s going to stay like that as much as I can possibly make it like that.

Can you talk about the title change from Superman: Legacy to just Superman?

I still think it has that aspect of “legacy” in it. I just, you know, we do this thing called the pre-mortem before we start shooting… And so we go into a room with me and all the department heads and we say, “let’s say this movie is a colossal… [or] we find out, you know, two years from now, when this movie comes out, you know, [it] goes terribly wrong. What are we doing right now that we’re not talking about, or that we’re doing that’s making this movie.”

It gives a chance for all of the parties involved to speak their mind, whether it’s about the script, whether it’s about the casting, whether it’s about how departments aren’t communicating with each other. Everybody is allowed, from transportation to whatever. They’re all allowed to say what they think. And I found it extremely helpful. And one of the things was, I thought, maybe the title. It had a “looking back” feeling about it. And it isn’t about this. It’s about looking forward. So although, when you see the movie, you’ll understand where legacy comes from (Because it is, again, it’s about Clark and his relationship to his Kryptonian parents and his relationship to his human parents)… You’ll see it’s about that but I think as a title, but I felt it felt too “looking back.”

Can you talk about the casting process of David Corenswet as Superman? And did you take any queues from how they originally cast Christopher Reeve?

Yeah. I mean, well, listen, the truth is, I think I took cues from their casting process when I cast Chris [Pratt] as Star-Lord. So I’ve been taking tips from their casting process all along. I’ve always believed that the casting is the most important [aspect], and as long as the actor is the best possible actor for that role, that’s more important than it is for anything. Especially in today’s market… I just wanted to go for who was the best Superman. And so a lot of people auditioned. And the weird thing is, I was so crazily nervous about about getting Superman right and on the very first day of the tapes coming in, I had seen Corenswet in Pearl. So I said, “get him on tape.” And I talked to Ti West. And then, yeah, the very first day the tapes came in, David’s tape and Rachel’s tape, I saw both of those. I said, “Oh, my God, we’re gonna be okay, because both of these people are amazing!” There were other really good actors for both of those roles, as everybody knows. But at the end of the day, it was both of them as individuals. But then we did something that I didn’t do with Guardians, which is I cast two leads, you know, together. And I had them. They all came in. And we had this, you know, 15 minute long scene where they had to act together and talk and discuss and just communicate. And I mixed and matched all the different couples and there was something magical about them. I gotta say it was one of my greatest moments.

And since it’s two roles, what did you see in David as Clark?

It’s not only Clark. It’s not just Clark. It’s not just Superman. It’s “Clark-Superman,” you know? And the only people that know “Clark-Superman” are his mom and his dad and a few others know. And those are very different things. You know, people say all sorts of different things. They say Clark’s a real one. They say Superman is the real one, and Clark’s a secret identity. But it says it in my script. I’m like, the second page says I don’t believe either of those things. I don’t think anybody knows Superman unless they know both of them. And when they know both of them, they know the real guy, and that means the it’s you know, not too many people [know who he truly is].

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Superman means a lot to me as a character. I actually taught an elective course called “Superman as American Mythology” in college for pass/fail credit. He is the first comic book superhero, and arguably the most important and iconic one in history. But more importantly, what this character represents, and the goodness it inspires in children and adults alike is something that I feel the world can truly benefit from these days.

It’s important to remember that the story of Superman is in and of itself a story of immigration, and the good that can happen when we inspire tolerance, kindness, acceptance, and good will into the hearts of one another, regardless of their differences. Americans like Martha and Jonathan Kent opened their home to a child without one, and created the greatest hero the world had ever seen. Furthermore, that individual would go on to lead the fight against the evils of corruption, selfishness, and greed persisted by megalomaniac psychopaths who only want power. If you are intelligent enough to understand the parallels behind the relevance of the story today, then there is hope for this country after all.

As such, hearing Gunn’s reverence for the material and passion in bringing the film to life the right way has given me so much confidence in how good Superman will be when it comes out next year. We don’t know what the world will look like at that point in time. However, if nothing else, it does give us — me, and I’m sure millions of others — something to look forward to, and a movie that I think we may need to become better as human beings and Americans. Because at a time when all of us are in a state where we’re looking down on our own country and one another, we will finally, finally have a reason to look up once again.

Superman will be saving the day once more, July 11, 2025.

We will have much more coverage for Superman in the coming months leading up to the big release, folks. I promise you, this is just the beginning. So stay tuned to The Nerds of Color for more as we countdown to the movie’s debut!