Marvel is no stranger to mental health and trauma when it comes to their heroes and villains. Many of their greatest heroes have been in a place of uncertainty – Thor losing himself (and gaining weight) after Infinity War; Rocket Raccoon’s past trauma and found family; Wanda’s grief overtaking an entire town; and many other heroes dealing with post-traumatic stress disorders. Yet, as the heroes in the story, they persevered while saving many lives. 

In Thunderbolts*, the anti-heroes or “former villains” are given this opportunity to explore their mental state, as messed up as they are, and how working together is how they can become heroes. 

“Anybody has what it takes to be a hero,” says Julia Louis-Dreyfus, who plays the power-hungry CIA director Valentina Allegra de Fontaine.” That’s one of the themes of the film.”

While Valentina is not part of the ragtag crew, Louis-Dreyfus says her character knows that to change the world for the better, you need power. Her intentions may not seem righteous, but not everything is black and white. 

“It was so much fun to play her,” she says. “[Valentina] has an insatiable desire for power, and you get a window into why in this film. She’s always three steps ahead of folks almost all the time. When she’s not all of a sudden, then pivots very well. Her driver is power. Power control is interesting in this film because it’s a little more nuanced than that kind of thing might normally be.”

As for the others, director Jake Schreier thought deeply about the characters, as they were all so isolated from society. He didn’t think much about the heroism or the traditional idea of heroism, but about how these former heroes or villains could all work together to become better. 

“There are these people who were meant to be these individual golden heroes,” says Schreier. “Walker is Captain America. Alexei is Red Guardian. Things haven’t worked out [for them], and they’re stuck in this much darker place. It’s not so much about being that kind of individualistic hero, but you could become something bigger as the sum of your parts if you find that connection and a way out of that place.”

Though the Red Guardian’s spirit always seems to be optimistic, he does have his demons, but is too narcissistic to realize it. Harbour says, “Alexei is just a narcissist to the extreme. He’s deranged. Yes, he won’t listen, doesn’t understand, [and] he doesn’t take people in. He just takes what he wants. So in a way, he’s psychotic, but in a sweet way.”

As for the heroic aspect of the characters, Harbour believes that people who are struggling and going through demons, like these characters, could even be better heroes. 

“If you spend all of this time working on saving yourself, isolated in a room, on your phone, and thinking about how you’re gonna [be fixed], then you’re ruined,” Harbour says. “I think you need to ask other people and be vulnerable. Go out into public, and in a group, and say, ‘I need help.’ That’s how you save, not only yourself, but other people.”

Harbour says the deep layers underneath this movie are all about isolation and divisiveness, and how the characters navigate it together as a community. He says, “We are social animals. That’s the sort of fun, subtle layer of this movie.” 

Wyatt Russell, who plays John Walker a.k.a. former Captain America, agrees, saying that helping others and concentrating on somebody else and making a connection with that person may bring people out of that headspace. For Walker, who undergone the most significant change from “nice guy” to being a complete asshole villain in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, is doing whatever it takes to get his life back together. Russell was prepared to be the most hated person in Marvel (and still wants that), but is seeing the transition in the character. 

“He has a long way to go,” says Russell. “He’s not a fully realized person [and] probably not going to be one very soon.”

Hannah John-Kamen says Ghost never wanted to be a hero or a villain. She was just a kid when the quantum explosion gave her powers, killing both her parents. She was labeled a villain in Ant-Man and the Wasp, but she was merely trying to survive. 

“When it comes to heroes, villains, and anti-heroes, what does that mean?” she says. “What does success mean? What does it all mean in this movie? We’re a group of people who have had it hard. They’ve had it really hard. They have [to think about] the decisions that they’ve made. There are good people who have done very bad things. Do they get a second chance? They deserve a second chance. They want a second chance. Do they want to be a hero and not suffer alone in that? They have a similarity that spreads between all these characters in the movie, and I think that’s going to be a relatable thing.” 

As for Bob, who Marvel comics fans know as Sentry, he’s a new player in the MCU who has to deal with the characters who “save” him from the vault. When we are introduced to Bob, he’s going through many modes of manic depression. Actor Lewis Pullman says all of the characters are going through some sadness, and Bob sees that in all of them. 

“There’s something about the dynamic [between Bob and the other characters] that allows audiences to connect because each of them is dragging around these massive sandbags of grief,” says Pullman. “They just need somebody to help pick them up and carry them for just a little while. Bob recognizes that, especially with Yelena. Despite [some of the characters seemingly] be assholes, it’s all a protective mechanism because they’re been hurt in the past. They’ve learn not to trust anyone. They’ve been duped or let down so many times. That’s why he’s able to trust them in some ways because he sees that sort of similar nature.”

See the full interview below:

Marvel’s Thunderbolts* premieres May 2 in theaters everywhere.